TENSHOCK,NEU, LEHNER wie kommen sie zu vergleichen?

[cohesive]

Hi Christian,

In response to your post on rc line. It appears the newer double helix wind surrounding a two poles rotor each with an opening angle of 45 degrees would form a square ABC rhombic phase matrix under each pole with 90 degree resultant vectors? Each 180 degree coil set would be set at 120 degrees apart. Wouldn't the 4,8,10,12,14,16 higher pole counts increase the switching loss at high speeds?So for high speed it seems 2 or 4 poles would be better in terms of switching loss? What are the torque ripple characteristics of a skewed winding as compared to straight in a slotless motor?

Anyone else here is free to give answers as well.

Hubert

[cohesive]

In the meantime here is the BEMF scope shots @ apprx. 15.5k rpm from the SL MX700. Panned out to be 835 Kv on the optical tachometer. Compare the 2nd and 3rd photo taken at 2,250 rpm and you can see the harmonics associated with loss amplitudes rise with an increase in rpm . Still we can see the crest and troughs starting to flatten confirming a better trapezoidal BEMF for zero cross drives. A pure sinus has shown to be better for BLAC or but not superior to trapezoidal on BLDC drives. What most hobbyist use. The last photo was the Bemf and FFT analysis taken across a phase and the neutral line. I believes it illustrates the extra triplen current and noise in the neutral line. I could be wrong but clearly more harmonics are being produced here. This seems to agree with the academic explanation for 170% increase of triplen seen it the neutral lines.


Hubert

[cohesive]

This is a photo of new tech in the USA from Thingap. The IEEE confirm 30% more power density in printed or coils etched on flexible pcb.



Hubert

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[cohesive]

http://motorsolver.com/mfg-services/prototyping/

[cohesive]

FYI

Ive found that actually Slotless winding dont have to be hard to repeat or "spaghetti". Rhombic or similar skewed windings can be repeated with a fair amount of consistency using a sliding mandrel. The patent for such a mandrel lies here in the US. Definitely does not have to be indiscriminately laid. In some slotless motors u can see a definitive pattern overlapping placing at least 1 wire from each phase under a pole.

Hubert

[cohesive]

Hi Christian,

You do not talk much here but this is the actual laser cutting vendor that will provide the lamination's for the stator designs we've tossed back n forth. We really need to talk because some type of non-disclosure agreement needs to be drafted and signed by such vendors....

Send me email soon. I'm ready to get these done.

Man braucht nicht viel hier reden, aber das ist die eigentliche Laserschneid Anbieter, der die Laminierung der für den Stator-Designs bieten wir kommen wieder n her geworfen haben. Wir müssen reden wirklich, weil irgendeine Art von Geheimhaltungsvereinbarung muss von solchen Anbietern ausgearbeitet und unterzeichnet werden ....


A video of the laser cutting process for those interested.


Hubert

[cohesive]

Hello ,
Unfortunately I have to inform everyone the SPS stator suggestion may be a bust. After a year of winding testing and encouragement that this was the best design I have been informed that no flux analysis work has been done on the stator. I guess my original sent plan to do so just had some numbers arbitrarily set in place and sent back. Well we know that is a hit or miss. The prototype will cost a considerable amount in .005 hiperco 50. Not specifically but close to 2 grand!! I was going to give this the best opportunity to win or show gains but it is impossible for me to be able to also finance 10000 dollar analysis software for a prototype already at the hands of someone else that merely had to take a few minutes away from posting on 5 forums about such things and actually nurture its success but they spend too much time typing everywhere so they have no time.

So,
Ill let you know how it goes. I guess I will backtrack to motor solve USA and pay for the analysis as well. If it fail SPS is not my child but someone else's so if they do not tell the caregiver the right food the baby cannot be healthy. Nevertheless I will stand by its failure or success on my own accord and will be ready to take all the criticism that arise. No need to post what you cant stand behind and take the heat for if you are wrong. I will be right here with bulls eye on chest. Sorry about suggestions that people don't guide you fully through. It is of no service to anyone. So it is best I lock my back door . You can waste a lot of time and money on pieces of an idea or theory with no real meat. I have already so I will see it through.

You all see clearly how much of my own time and effort I spend. If one doesn't have 30 min time to foster his own ideas and suggestions to other modelers, no need to suggest anything.

God Bless.
Back to school....

Hubert

I have and old 1977 242 special prepped 4 cylinder volvo with 22 pounds of boost that will beat Maserati GT on the autobahn any day. It does have a Maserati turbo knock computer though..... only 8 valves!!!




the "family car" the t6 motor can put 700 hp to the ground on e85 and stock internals my friend. The Group A 4 cylinders Grotis head bricks consistently ruled BMW v8's in the mid 80's BTCC

Im enjoying my cars too including the AWD v8. Net surfers... go on you tube and watch a prepped t5 run down a Lamborghini !

A family car

[cohesive]

All the motors and perspective BLDC drives will be moved to my blog. Anyone is welcome to visit but you will have to sign in to see everything and that means Ill know if you've been there...

God Bless
Hubert.

[cohesive]

Delivered In godspeed an epiphany...... https://www.unibw.de/rz/dokumente/ge...220917&fd=kein

I can look to the fellow IEEE Members and ensure great amendments for better flux performance and hysteresis rejection within the SPS design.

Watch me...your purpose here.

God Bless
Hubert

[cohesive]

Looks to be more field confirmation of DahamanIshak ,Z.Q.Zhu, Senior Member, IEEE, and David Howe findings on Single and Dual layer FSCW bldc motors

"In that case the stock motor had a 780 Kv and the LRK-Y wind was predicted to produce a 781 Kv and I liked that because it compared the dLRK and LRK winds at the same Kv rating.

The details are all in that post and my conclusion was that by going to that LRK-Y wind gave me an 8% increase in full throttle RPM, a 48% reduction in current draw, and a 15% increase in thrust. So if you were looking for a wind that would give you much better duration out of a battery and slight increases in full throttle RPM and speed, this would be a good wind. And it did that at 116W at full throttle. "

~Jackerbes Rc groups~

[cohesive]

No matter what forums have to offer anyone's best bet is a good education and real world testing. Do these thing and an entirely different world becomes clear. You will be happy and well informed. The line between helping modelers and vendor$ is very obscure so please be aware in your travels seeking knowledge and what really motivates some of the postings you read on forums.

God Bless
Cohesive

[cohesive]

Zeus wire sent me a few samples of PEEK coated magnet wire for review. I have already received much opinion from non active forum geniuses who quite obviously do not understand professional courtesy over .001watt per meter kelvin variance in thermal conductivity as compared to some PAI's. It should be obvious if someone gives you 3 spools of working samples that you would be professionally courteous and wind at least 1 motor in the material. This allows you to give the representative real feedback from the field which could be applied to make the product better. Just no way around the ignorance that runs abundant on model forums or the geniuses who spend their majority of time at a keyboard.Who spends critical design time arguing 1/100th of a watt per meterkelvin of dissipation? Somebody with nothing better to do.

Truly Pathetic!

Happy Boating
Hubert

[cohesive]

What about hallbach on stacked axial inrunners?

WOW

http://goldeneye.ethz.ch/motoren/ele...unner/index_EN

[cohesive]

double post

[Ch.Lucas]

wy not doubleside motor ,has double trustsurface ,much higher torque ability .Trustsurface rule , https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publ...C&locale=de_EP .

[cohesive]

Yes right Christian why not. It can be ready in time to install in your saw boat but I was thinking in terms of this decade....

Trying to find this valence and body kit if you can sen me a link. The family car......I drive bricks homie

[cohesive]

Perfect example of school of croco dl winds and fitment problems associated.



"f you get 20 turns in there you will get 420 kv but you probably have to go to 1.27mm wire.
This is a 5020 wound with 1.4mm 8+8 YY 525kv.
(kv shown are measured on jive. At 18* add around 10kv to each number)"

Do open eyes think it would be difficult to wind 16 turns of 16 ga or larger wire in a skipped tooth wind on the stator above? The parallel winds all still apply only I can get more copper in and all the advantages of skipped tooth winds are inherent. I put SL winds against any powercroco DL in a boat on sensorless drives. You can tell him I said it.

For boaters with a 5020 scorpion how about 10 to 12 turns SL in 1.9mm YY kv should be around 700-900. That will pull a prop for sure. A 12n10p the single layer will make more torque and do it easier than a DL on BLDC drives. Follow slow turning speed plane design theory if you choose. In my experience single coil winding fits wire easier. All the well thought out 4-3-2-1 sequencing to fit large wire DL is a waste of time for boaters and only gets harder after each coil group.My experience says it is silly to go through it all for less.

Unfortunate to sell friends outrunners people don't tell you any of this dual layer vs single layer or about all the loss associated with a high rpm outrunner as compared to a Nue or Lehner inrunner in a boat.Of course they knew. Not friends anymore so all the places their motor can improve is now being brought to light through forum piss matches after saying its the way to go.Same guys different faces. Innocent modelers with privateer money are simply collateral damage in vendor wars. The IEEE has a plethora of valid information on the subject matter. Go to the site sometime and treat yourself to some profit free reality.

God Bless
Hubert

[Snopy205]

Hi.

Wie schaut es in der Praxis aus?
Papier ist geduldig.

Dann wirst du ja bestimmt mal eins deiner Boote gefahren haben z.b. mit nen 4035 12N10P ein mal in YY und ein mal als SPS.
Gleicher Motor,ca.gleiche KV,Prop Accu,Wasser gleich usw.

Hast dann ja bestimmt auch Logdaten von den fahrten,Bilder und Videos vom Boot usw.

Wie schaut der REALE Vergleich aus?

Sprich was geht an Strom durch,wie warm werden die Motorn,wie schnell läuft das Boot usw.
Da wäre ja mal eine gegenüberstellung der Daten interessant.

Und dann die große frage...merkt man es im Wasser???
Brauche ich den extremen Füllgrad oder ist es besser wenn ich etwas weniger habe aber ne besser Kühlung.

Wie groß ist der Quantensprung zur SPS Wicklung?

Ich persönlich sehe das so das viele Wege nach Rom führen.
Du gehst den einen Weg,ich nen anderen,und der nächste nen ganz wo anders lang und doch kommen wir alle an.


Gruß Ralf!

[cohesive]

Sound like the same old argument that doesn't change the facts. Common sense tells you why:


Neu

Lehner

With such abundance of copper and absolute lack of space what happens with the cooling in a Neu or Lehner inrunner? Amazing to think it would be a real problem for a sl outrunner with 6 totally open teeth underneath a can circulating air and radial fan. The idea that the larger CCSA not just more copper but circular mills reducing the electrical drag (resistance) would have a net detrimental effect on performance because of lack of cooling (heat caused by friction) sounds well thought out wouldn't you say? Since you have a grasp on biblical esc logs. I'm sure you will show yours that show the superior performance of a DL compared to a single layer in the same turn and possibly the larger ga. it fits? I already know as many reputable non profiteering motor building EE's have shown. Better if you prove it to yourself and them with a datalog

A true single phase sector may entail a slight bit more than just skipped teeth winding. But anyway Here is a kontronics 800 pyro 7 + 7 I wound( a general google search now). The 7 +7 was found most efficient pyro 800 wind by your school out of dl winds. Does it look airy? If you read the thread you will also see real field accounts of the improvement seen in sl compared to dl by modelers not associated with me in any form or fashion.





God Bless
Cohesive