TENSHOCK,NEU, LEHNER wie kommen sie zu vergleichen?

[Snopy205]

Hi.

Das ist ja alles gut und schön.

Du hast ja behauptet das es besser ist mit der SPS im Boot.
Das kann ja auch gut sein.

Ich fahre sehr gut mit meinen Motoren.
Wo bei ich hier auch nie geschrieben habe was und wie ich fahren.
Was ich aber hier auch nicht machen werde.Das läuft eh intern
Da fehlt mir auch ganz ehrlich die Zeit und Lust zu.

Ich behaupte ja auch nicht das meine besser laufen.
Das könnte ich erst behaupten wenn ich beides im Boot getestet hätte.

Kam für mich aber noch nicht in Frage weil ich mit meinen Weg sehr zufrieden bin und die Kühlung der Wicklung besser finde.
Das ist halt meine Meinung und meiner Erfahrungen die ich im Boot gemacht habe.
Die SPS Wicklung ist ja keine neue Erfindung.

Schade hätte nur gedacht das du dein Theorie/Fakten vom Prüfstand/Messungen auch mal getestet hast im Boot um uns hier den großen Vorteil zu zeigen.
Hätte mich schon mal interessiert wie groß oder auch nicht der Unterschied im Wasser ist.
Ich kann es leider nicht sagen.


So das war es auch von meiner Seite hier zu den Thema.
Ist auch nicht böse gemeint oder so.

Ps. Hab gerad gesehen das ich noch Teile für nen 4020 Motor habe.
Werd dann die Tage mal nen 4020 als SPS zu mein 4020 wickeln und selber testen.

Gruß Ralf.

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Another way to see clearly. If you believe a reduction in total harmonic distortion of the BLDC power/drive system would mean more efficient power delivery then you also believe in many Single Layer theories. Keep in mind a poly variables condition running model data log is not necessary to accurately analyze these electrical/mechanical power systems integrity or output.

My understanding is if you supply a dual layer FSCW motor with a VFD type commutation (FOC,DTC) things may really go. For SPS proposed is 3 full h-bridge phases. None is common in fast electric boating I think.

Enjoy your testing. In practice If you wind a 12N10P 4 + 4 dual layer then it is 8 turns on 6 alternating arms. I have detailed previously YY and DD skipped tooth terminations I suggest YY. If you don't like the idea of more circle mills then wind it in the same ga. Perhaps that will also make it easier for you to fit the carrier.

Some of the theory is as recent as 4 years. I think croco school for a boat is much more Jurassic....

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In meantime I found wonderful ground full 8mm shaft donar.Donar looks like a kunimotor Christian maybe ill use the dimensional remnants to fashion a halbach rotor. So no grooves or clips for weak shaft break point and pull apart annoyances with really nice teflon washers. It has great interference fit through the bearings for quiet operation. Ill leave enough out the ass to attach the bosch trigger wheel for sensor'ed operation with logic IC . Time to part it off....

God Bless
Hubert

[Snopy205]

Hi.

Dann verstehe ich dein Problem nicht.

Es sollte ja dann für Dich ein leichtes Spiel sein uns Bootsfahrer deine überragenden Antriebe auf den Wasser zu demonstrieren und Fakten zu liefern in wie weit die besser sind.

Ich bin gespannt wie groß der Vorsprung ist und ob man das überhaupt im Wasser merkt.

Der reale Einsatzt ist doch das was uns interessiert.


So klinke ich mich hier auch aus der Diskussion aus.

Gruß Ralf.

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There are no problems for me. Living life and electronics understanding to the fullest. No time to reiterate the same thing.

Good Luck with your testing. I think you will find in mono 1.5 -1.9 mm good gauges and 5-7 turns good coils to try in single layers as upgrade on a 4035 for a fast electric boat.

IEEE Member 93895120
God Bless
Hubert

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For a boat this upgrade I like; a fresh 8mm shaft. Maybe someone will try a twin inline Do you see where the bearing inner race has badly worn the original shaft? Interference fit absent = bearing race and shaft noise. So no good.

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Hmm.... I hear about 1 and 2s high amperage proposals. I wonder would the Lithium supercaps still be duck? Maybe the hall sensors would allow a diy to create a sensored controller using a $ .75 logic IC for instead of an elaborate microprocessor and flasher and simply concentrate on a robust high amperage bridge. Do you think it is possible to create a 600 amp sink for under 1000.00?

Hubert

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Interesting in the brand new scorpion rewind kits like I used to wind this 4035 in a dual layer 200c* dual 1.3mm conductor for 6 turns in a parallel wye (apprx 1200kv) is no key way for steel dowel on the carrier . What I am seeing is modelers grinding the key way in the carrier and pressing a piece of piano wire in the groove. Easy enough to do with a fair amount of precision is a dremel cut off wheel mounted in the mill with a 90 degree fixture to hold the carrier but I was thinking why not just use loctite 603 for this duty? For fun I also attached another winders compact beautiful 6 turn LRK 1.8mm 4035. Looks to be plenty of breathing room in that single layer if that's a real concern for anyone.My hkIII 4035 as you see terminates 4x's 1.3mm current arteries for each motor terminal.

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So for boaters yes I think this is a better way to go....

I also think an open eye can see simplicity and durability as great attributes. And still a 8,12, or 16 pin pic can be an addendum for cute features not directly involving the basic commutation.

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Talk is cheap so I'm looking for beta testors. 1/8th scale hydros and like sized monos preferably. send me a line and we can work it out. I'm very comfortable with someone trying my winds out.

Real simple!

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"The segregation of the losses in the studied machine indicates that the losses in the magnet are much smaller compared to the rotor and stator core losses caused by the slot harmonics. Therefore, core loss minimization techniques for this type of machine will involve reduction of slot harmonics. Also, copper loss is found to be the most dominating component of the total loss. Hence, copper loss minimization should be part of the design optimization process"

R. Dutta, L. Chong, and F. M. Rahman, "Analysis and experimental verification of losses in a concentrated wound interior permanent magnet machine," Progress In Electromagnetics Research B, Vol. 48, 221-248, 2013.
doi:10.2528/PIERB12110715
http://www.jpier.org/pierb/pier.php?paper=12110715

This is partly how you'd arrive at an SPS stator w Litz wire or Multi stranding a good way to minimize copper loss and stator loss. Very different from traditional croc school large mono wire test finding acceptable skin effect losses with no more than 1.8mm bare copper..... The issue is since these speed plane is running around 6000 rpm the skin effect losses are minimal as compared to 60,000 rpm. Id think 20,000 rpm would be the least amount most fe boaters in any class would go 3X what the speed planes do. And still the cooper cross sectional area will be larger with a full bobbin single layer. Just cannot get as much copper between two adjacent teeth. No question.....

What I found from the rotor courtesy of the IEEE is that carbon fiber epoxy or Inconel718 sleeves can reduce rotor loss.

As the rpm rises proximity and skin effects become more prominent at higher frequency. This reduces the effectiveness of the additional copper cross sectional area at higher frequencies (MORE RPM). Ac resistance is mitigated by the application of litz.


It seems the segmentation of the rare earth would be a last step toward greatness.

God Bless
Hubert

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Here's a photo I think any motor guy would like. BMW I8 electric motor...... 97KW!!!!! Stay silent Christian I know you love it......

Man! I bet the bitch will turn something..... Schaut euch das an STATOR SEGMENTIERTE. ES IST SCHÖN!!!!!!


http://www.designboom.com/technology...on-05-07-2014/

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Some have suggested powder-iron material for low loss bell but it have no mechanical integrity for work so cover in cf or similar mechanically strong sleeve. But if certain type of carbon/fiber epoxy reduce loss well enuf alone seem easier to skip middle men. And have lighter bell. They have not seen IEEE paper because I have not posted it yet.

God Bless
Hubert

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I have looked deeper and found that a copper sleeve between rotor and CF retention sleeve may truly minimize overall losses. Also some suggestion of circumferential grooving in the retaining sleeves may help in loss reduction. I have some reason to also believe that a slow turner would see a even lower frequency in the rotor as compared to the stator so the losses would be even more minimal there and would not really make themselves seen in Croco world as the would for us who turn much higher rpms.

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Becoming acclimated with FEMM .

The learning curve may take me awhile but this will get me places without the peek a boo games.

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And i can assure here are two schemes i derived that not one person can claim they gave me on any forum any where. I derived these schemes myself using the information available at the IEEE. and they threw those wind scheme cals from rc groups for a loop.

Aa-Bb-Cc Kw.95 and A-ACB-BAC-CB Kw.90

Never saw a 12n10p with all the teeth wound in the same direction. Nor 3 tooth parallel winds with individual coil winding not 6 groups! Or a 9n10p with Kw.95. This is how you step outside of a forum box and its gurus and go to a higher place of learning for your information.

Who told me this? Because what I was recommended was a dual layer?

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If you down load the latest version FEMM version there is a skipped tooth model in the database. That's where the flux analysis photo came from. There is no post saying it was my motor. Im trying to learn how to use the application correctly as it is my first time ever using it. I never lie about a motor or a model. Post #135 No edits..... Nothing like a clowns mouth.

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Hi this is a real friend. Moma......So you all know now who is talking to you. 5/16/2016

Hubert

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Femm example model of lrk flux density

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I have at least one beta tester submission so far and plenty of my own boats to test motors in twin 6s rigger Single 6s rigger 2 1/8 scales a Q mono, P limited sport hydro, P hydro and 16th. scale hydro.

New 1/8th scale I'm building currently that should provide a great test bed as well U25 pay n pak.